New Flex 6700 - anyone at Dayton?

Sat May 19 10:37:47 CDT 2012

Ah - a one-board version of HSPDR.
i didn't realize the HSPDR people had done that.

isn't that basically what the QS1 really is?
it's even named after one of the boards.

I always felt the original "lots of small boards"
HSPDR design suffered from a bad case of
"Emacs Disease" - the number of "options" there
are to mess with is not a useful figure of merit.
having a system which actually works is the
first requirement - only then does
the ability to fiddle with it matter.

I knew Phil C. had been involved with the TAPR
effort at one point. It's not hard imagining his
design approach getting crosswise with people
of the other view. Oh well.

     cheers,
     -mo

On 5/19/12 10:36 AM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I already have the QS1R so for me would be just adding the QS1E. The 
> power levels are perfect for the transverter to 1296 that I have. the 
> HPSDR filter and amplifier boards might be the add on you are looking 
> for. Some hardware and software integration needed.
>
> HPSDR has been around for quite a while. Web search HPSDR and you find 
> it. Is a TAPR and others project "High Performance SDR" with boards 
> sold by TAPR and others. Two versions right now. One is multiple 
> boards that fit on a motherboard. And a one board integrated 
> transceiver. Same issue for all of these, i.e. you have to then add in 
> filter boards and power amplifiers.  Designer of the QS1R and QS1E was 
> part of the original HPSDR team until they parted ways.
>
> http://tapr.org/hpsdr_index.html to purchase production boards
>
> http://openhpsdr.org/ with a wiki at
> http://openhpsdr.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>
> pre-production interest is gathered at
>
> http://www.hamsdr.com/hpsdrlist.aspx?p=7
>
> 73, tom n4zpt
>
>
>
>
> On 5/19/2012 8:19 AM, Mike O'Dell wrote:
>> Which radio is this? (HPSDR Hermes)
>>
>> The Quicksilver does 8 receive channels now in the FPGA.
>> It's just a matter of gate real estate. There is the question of
>> how to get from the QS-1E exciter board up to power that
>> qualifies as QRP instead of the QQQQRP output level of
>> the barefoot board. Several folks that have the exciters are
>> working that problem. The good part is that the QS-1R with
>> the QS-1E "factory installed" is about $1200 all-in (if i remember
>> correctly - not off by too much if wrong). Then the xmit PA
>> chain can be added incrementally. the Phil's software already
>> supports the TX functions.
>>
>> it's actually pretty interesting to compare the F-6X00 with
>> the Quicksilver. There will certainly be some back-and-forth
>> about who did what first, but by my read, the QS did multiple
>> receive channels first (that's been working for quite a while
>> and the interfaced with the web server so multiple remote
>> users can look at multiple bands - i believe the multiple
>> channels was first hacked into the Verilog by a user!),
>> Phil has had the CW keyer with direct sidetone and waveform
>> synthesis all in the FPGA since the very first protos of the exciter.
>>
>> Here we have a classic example of "leap-frogging". each successive
>> product can move the bar significantly because of the newest
>> parts they get to design with. Sometimes the competitor that
>> starts 6 months *after* the first-mover has a significant advantage
>> precisely because he could design with better/faster/denser/cheaper
>> parts than when the first-mover had to freeze the design. They may
>> even hit the market at almost the same time in spite of a large
>> difference in elapsed calendar and total cash burned. This is why
>> being too early to a market is easily just as fatal as being late.
>>
>> The new FPGAs are an interesting point of comparison viz this issue.
>> I believe the QS uses the FPGA it does because it's the biggest part
>> he could get (at the time) that was leaded - everything denser used
>> Ball Grid Array. I suspect that decision was driven by the hopes
>> of offering the QS as a kit, not to mention the expense of building and
>> debugging BGA prototypes on a shoestring budget.
>> (BGA debug daughters are available but are not cheap and require a
>> seriously
>> expensive socket on the prototype board and still precludes a lot of
>> "blue-wire"
>> and "dead-bug" hacks as seen in most protos.) as the QS is now
>> line-assembled
>> and given the engineering experience if Phil did it again today 
>> (QS-2???),
>> i suspect the BGA issue might not loom as large as it did then
>>
>> Radio History question:
>> i have seen references suggesting that the arrival
>> of the Collins rigs with out-of-the-box SSB support (and the adoption by
>> SAC!) might represent the tipping point where SSB transitioned from
>> the darling of the hard-core hackers to mainstream, as in you didn't 
>> have
>> to build something to run sideband.
>>
>> IS THIS TRUE? What was the first generally-available rig that came out
>> of the box with solid SSB support?
>>
>> my point is whether the FLEX 6x00 radios is a parallel to, eg, Collins,
>> that SDR has arrived at the tipping point. Clearly Very Not Cheap, but
>> now clearly packagable as an "appliance" and not an exercise in
>> technology exploitation for the industrious.
>>
>> -mo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/18/12 9:03 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:
>>> Hi Terry,
>>>
>>> Yea, the simpler single digitizer unit looks more affordable but I
>>> guess they are trying to beat the FT-5000 ( but not 200 watts) with
>>> the 6700. The dynamic range possibility is really nice. I too was very
>>> surprised about the software. But then if they publish the API and
>>> only display/control is via the PC software then maybe will be 3rd
>>> party software. Maybe the new HRD guys will adapt?
>>>
>>> I am likely to just wait for the HPSDR Hermes radio.
>>>
>>> I presume the software keeps running and you just do not get support.
>>> Or pay as you go if all are lucky.
>>>
>>> 73, tom n4zpt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/18/2012 8:06 PM, wb4jfi at knology.net wrote:
>>>> It appears the 6500, with only one A/D RF deck(?) is only $4,000. 
>>>> That's
>>>> more in line with what I might be able to afford. And, I don't really
>>>> need to monitor ten bands at once, five would do just fine. For an 
>>>> extra
>>>> $3,000, I can give up internal 2 Meters as well.
>>>>
>>>> The other concern is the $200 per year cost for the software and
>>>> support. If you forgo the $200/year, does the software still work, but
>>>> you don't get upgrades? Or, if you don't pay, you can't play?
>>>>
>>>> Darn, I was starting to tally up what I could sell to get the $4,000,
>>>> until the little software fee showed up.
>>>> Terry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Mike O'Dell
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:50 PM
>>>> To: Tom Azlin N4ZPT
>>>> Cc: tacos at amrad.org
>>>> Subject: Re: New Flex 6700 - anyone at Dayton?
>>>>
>>>> It does have impressive specs and certainly represents
>>>> a high-end design that will have long legs - a real
>>>> "stake in the ground".
>>>>
>>>> I believe it will also create what we call a "price umbrella".
>>>> I suspect we won't have to wait terribly long for others to
>>>> develop product that does some large fraction as much for much lower
>>>> cost.
>>>> the components used are all going to slide down the learning curve
>>>> pretty quickly because of their use in LTE base stations and access
>>>> points.
>>>> (the success of LTE is going to hinge on Mini-, Micro-, Pico-, and
>>>> Femto-Cell
>>>> systems. yes, those all exist. The FonHedz have every intention of
>>>> co-opting
>>>> WiFi in service of their coverage extension plans, so be prepared to
>>>> supply
>>>> your Internet connectivity free of charge to the Picocell your
>>>> carrier will
>>>> try to foist on you in the name of "better service".)
>>>>
>>>> -mo
>>>>
>>>> On 5/18/12 4:38 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:
>>>>> Plus $200 a year for the software? 73, tom n4zpt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/18/2012 3:05 PM, Lee Wood wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I interpret their their web-site correctly:
>>>>>> http://cart.flexradio.com/Signature-Series-Radios_c_17.html
>>>>>> the regular price of a FLEX-6700 is $6999, requiring a deposit of
>>>>>> $2,100.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________
>>>>>> Lee_Wood at shaw.ca
>>>>>> VA7BZZ
>>>>>> Latitude : 49.263
>>>>>> Longitude : -123.155
>>>>>> Grid : CN89kg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 18, 2012, at 10:00 AM, tacos-request at amrad.org wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The new Flex radios have been announced on their web site. It looks
>>>>>>> REAL good, but someone said the price was $7k, and delivery is 4th
>>>>>>> quarter. Can someone at Dayton confirm this, especially the price?
>>>>>>> If it?s that high, I will continue to play with the lower-cost
>>>>>>> options. It may be worth that (to government agencies and the
>>>>>>> independently wealthy), but that?s way beyond what I can/want to
>>>>>>> spend on a rig.
>>>>>>> Terry, WB4JFI
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tacos mailing list
>>>>>> Tacos at amrad.org
>>>>>> https://amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/tacos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tacos mailing list
>>>>> Tacos at amrad.org
>>>>> https://amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/tacos
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>