anyone with an entry level FPGA development board (VHDL support) they don't need?

Samudra Haque samudra.haque at gmail.com
Mon Mar 16 14:13:27 EDT 2020 

Spartan 7 is supported by vivado web pack free edition at the current time.
Just checked.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 14:11 Martin <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lattice iCE uses much less power than the competition.  That is one of
> their selling points.
>
> The board you mentioned uses a Xilinx Spartan chip.  This requires Xilinx
> ISE Suite which is being deprecated.  The Windows version include a VM so
> that the linux ISE version is actually used.
>
> The iCE board that Jacek got looks really nice for what it is.
>
> I think that once you understand FPGAs more you'll discover that hardware
> is better suited for timing control and the processor might not need a RTOS.
>
> Martin
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:31 AM Terry N4TLF <n4tlf at wb4jfi.com> wrote:
>
>> MicroBlaze used to cost significant dollars to use.  PicoBlaze was the
>> smaller, no-cost option.
>>
>> Beware of hidden costs associated with the IDE tools.  I bought one
>> Xilinx-based board, where the Vivaldo license was locked to the one board,
>> and for only a limited time.  Once that time expired, yu needed to purchase
>> a regular license.  On the other hand, the Altera line has/had issues where
>> they discontinue support for lines of FPGA chips as they update the IDE.
>>
>> One other point regarding FPGAs, most tend to be power hogs.
>> Terry
>>
>>
>> *From:* samudra.haque at gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2020 12:12 PM
>> *To:* 'Martin'
>> *Cc:* 'Terry N4TLF' ; 'Tacos'
>> *Subject:* RE: anyone with an entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>> Hey all, I just noticed from Joel’s list this one priced economically at
>> $35.90 …
>> https://www.seeedstudio.com/Spartan-Edge-Accelerator-Board-p-4261.html?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=edm&utm_campaign=bazaar_0919&ct=t&mc_cid=2972c7f3ab&mc_eid=5f0fb45d80
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks interesting no? if treated as a standalone FPGA board – which it
>> can be instead of an Arduino accessory. Any drawbacks? It’s an FPGA
>> development system  I understand that. But then I read that MicroBlaze
>> (Vivado) that can then host FreeRTOS.
>> https://www.freertos.org/a00090.html#XILINX.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, essentially a replacement for Intel Max 10, Nios II, FreeRTOS
>> combination, at a cheaper I think price, with more gates, and a development
>> board that is current production with a host of documentation?
>>
>> http://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Spartan-Edge-Accelerator-Board/
>>
>>
>>
>> Samudra
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* samudra.haque at gmail.com <samudra.haque at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2020 11:30 AM
>> *To:* 'Martin' <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* 'Terry N4TLF' <n4tlf at wb4jfi.com>; 'Tacos' <tacos at amrad.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: anyone with an entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Martin, Terry – I zoomed through to try and Intel’s Quartus and the
>> Nios II Embedded Development System to go through a simulated design cycle
>> all the way upto a pin-out matching stage for a real processor. It included
>> adding specific Verilog code to handle some simple-enough signal flow (and,
>> xor, not) etc. for some of the control lines. I was able to figure out
>> quickly the workflow, to synthesize and reach stages before simulation
>> which included “wiring” up the section of the soft processor to the other
>> soft peripherals.
>>
>>
>>
>> I obviously don’t have hardware, and the tutorial assumed all was
>> available in the development board  and did not try to actually simulate
>> the circuit as I wanted to evaluate how difficult the challenge of learning
>> these tools were going to be – my confidence is increasing because of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, another friend explained:
>>
>>    - FPGA
>>    - FPGA + soft CPU (e.g. Soft processor core in an FPGA, perhaps many
>>    of them, and the rest available for standard FPGA applications)
>>    - FPGA + hard CPU (e.g. Silicon with an embedded hard processor core
>>    and FPGA section on same die)
>>
>>
>>
>> My hope  is to run a FreeRTOS or uC/OS-II as supervisory operating
>> system, with command/telemetry/control/sensor management roles. The FPGA
>> would be for development of the all-important interfaces and logic that
>> would change from project to project. Low capacity (1200 bps, 9600 bps) RF
>> communications.  Absolutely target a lower power/lower capacity system.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I was wondering if I could ask your opinion on this low cost board I
>> saw discussed in https://joelw.id.au/FPGA/CheapFPGADevelopmentBoards,
>> from the OMTECH seller
>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000323573953.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Are US equivalents available somewhere in the same price range?  It’s
>> about the same price as a Intel Max10 FPGA development board (No SOC)
>>
>>
>>
>> N3RDX
>>
>> *From:* samudra.haque at gmail.com <samudra.haque at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 15, 2020 1:01 PM
>> *To:* 'Martin' <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* 'Terry N4TLF' <n4tlf at wb4jfi.com>; 'Tacos' <tacos at amrad.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: anyone with an entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, I’ll have to spend time on different fpga vendor websites.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Martin <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2020 7:06 PM
>> *To:* Samudra Haque <samudra.haque at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Terry N4TLF <n4tlf at wb4jfi.com>; Tacos <tacos at amrad.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: anyone with an entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> Samudra - the flowchart you posted is for the NIOS II Embedded Processor
>> Design Suite not Quartus Prime Lite for FPGA and SoCs.   NIOS II is a
>> fairly complex 32 bit processor that you probably would never need for an
>> embedded system.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want a complex development framework then Quartus is probably a
>> good choice - it will take you weeks or months to become proficient.   Once
>> proficient you can start learning a HDL and FPGA concepts.
>>
>>
>>
>> ISE Design Suite, the IDE for older low end Xilinx Spartan FPGAs like the
>> Spartan 6 has been deprecated to help sales of new chips.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that Intel/Altera makes money on IP and there's a lot of open source
>> stuff available for Lattice.  I remember seeing an IDE that worked like
>> gnuradio-companion and took functional blocks like filters/
>> modulator/demodulator to compile for Lattice FPGAs.
>>
>>
>>
>> --Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 3:12 PM <samudra.haque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, yes, Martin, but I willing to take on a complex development
>> framework during the Corona virus downtimes for the benefit it might give
>> me, as I get ready to produce another piece of unique technology this year.
>>
>>
>>
>> I admit: so far without an EE formal education, but rather a CS
>> background with practical hardware projects, I was 0.25 EE degree in 1989,
>> 0.5 EE in 1997 when I developed broadband microwave equipment, 0.75 EE by
>> the post-grad development from fundamentals to flight hardware. I wasn’t
>> exposed to FPGA or DSP as I wasn’t in the EE discipline at all but I can do
>> all the math.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, I don’t want to spend time in getting to work. I estimate if I had
>> been educated in class in using the toolchain like what I saw in the video
>> I linked, and the tutorial that I am reading through, it would have saved
>> me a whole summer’s worth of heads down work that I completed in 2013 on my
>> own to take the lab bench parts (see picture) using MCF5270 to the
>> proto-flight board (which had different pin outs and different peripherals
>> and different BSP for the RTOS) that used MCF54415 family. To get around
>> the requirement the flight software be mature, I had to develop my own
>> ‘abstraction’ of the pin names/signal names/register maps so that I could
>> (with limited money) test between the lab version (MCF5270) and the flight
>> prototype EM-1 (MCF54415) interchangeably with a runtime firmware flag
>> based upon what hardware was present.
>>
>>
>>
>> Roughly this last year, I was coding BPSK modulators in C++ on my own
>> just as a challenge, but I felt constrained by just programming and wanted
>> to have real hardware to output a signal. Then I stumbled upon FPGA
>> routines for generating carrier waves (ref:
>> https://zipcpu.com/dsp/2017/07/11/simplest-sinewave-generator.html and
>> http://www.andraka.com/files/crdcsrvy.pdf and it just hit me on the
>> head: I was thinking 50 year old design methods:  code first and then
>> separately design the mod/demod using  discrete blocks etc. etc. --
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Martin <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2020 5:08 PM
>> *To:* Samudra Haque <samudra.haque at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Terry N4TLF <n4tlf at wb4jfi.com>; Tacos <tacos at amrad.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: anyone with a entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> You are making extra work for yourself going Intel or Xilinx.  Those
>> design tools support a large variety of FPGAs - some of which are very
>> large and complex and cost what a house goes for.  You project requires a
>> small, simple FPGA.  Do you want to spend your time leaning a proprietary
>> tool chain or the FPGA basics?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://hackaday.com/2019/07/05/bringing-fpga-development-to-the-masses/
>>
>>
>>
>> --Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 1:37 PM <samudra.haque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow, I am learning a lot thanks to Taco’s forums. I regret not paying
>> attention to FPGA world earlier. I just sat through 30 minutes of a free
>> training course on Intel’s website: and a wholesome review of a tutorial
>> using the flow chart shown below – and it would I am most sure at this
>> point, be easy for me to replicate my manually designed electric rocket
>> subsystem (see pics from 2015) control system, into an FPGA version down to
>> the 10 uS synthetic reprogrammable timebase I had to design, to validate my
>> multi-rocket synchronization routines – I honestly was just paying
>> attention to the physics, and not to the EE techniques then.
>>
>>
>>
>> Back then I was using Netburner hardware, and wholly customized PCB, with
>> IGBT power switches and ~40 amp transient discharges from an inductive
>> energy storage system I calculated manually. Well --- an FPGA containing a
>> soft-core MCU, some external switches, RTOS application (the same possibly
>> that I used in the RTOS of Netburner environment) and some barebones serial
>> comms seem to be practical to implement with these methods, …. And I may be
>> able to develop new control processes and drive other elements .. without
>> much delay ! Perhaps even use the onboard NIOS II DSP section to do
>> mod/demod ? BTW, I liked the training material 100 and 200 level FPGA
>> courses on the intel website, free with registration. Like:
>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/programmable/support/training/catalog.html?keywords=nios
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Terry N4TLF <n4tlf at wb4jfi.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2020 12:54 PM
>> *To:* samudra.haque at gmail.com; 'Martin' <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* 'Tacos' <tacos at amrad.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: anyone with a entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are a couple of books that might be of interest regarding Verilog:
>>
>>
>>
>> This book is interesting, and a little bit different.  It doesn’t require
>> actual hardware for most of it’s content.  I bought the Kindle version.
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Video-Game-Hardware-Verilog-ebook/dp/B07LD48CTV/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=verilog+book&qid=1584203304&sr=8-5
>>
>>
>>
>> THe title is accurate: a Concise guide to be sure.  Again, not tied to
>> any hardware, and somewhat light on details.  Fairly thin.
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Verilog-Example-Concise-Introduction-Design/dp/0983497303/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=verilog+book&qid=1584203528&sr=8-1
>>
>>
>>
>> I have the Kindle version of this book.  It uses a few specific boards.
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Programming-FPGAs-Getting-Started-Verilog-ebook/dp/B01M0F1L5G/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=verilog+book&qid=1584203803&sr=8-2
>>
>>
>>
>> THis is more expensive, I have the paper version.  It has the most of my
>> bookmarks of any book I have.  That says it all.
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Embedded-Design-Using-Programmable-Arrays/dp/1589094867/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Embedded+design+using+Programmable&qid=1584204048&sr=8-1
>>
>>
>>
>> There are several other books that I have.  Like many other technical
>> references, there is not ONE single book that is best.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have used the Papilio and Digilent FPGA boards (among others) to help
>> me learn most of what I have now forgotten, regarding FPGAs.  I now have
>> some newer boards boards based on Zynq FPGAs, such as the Red Pitaya, a
>> MicroZed, and others.  These are MUCH more powerful, but also much more
>> complicated.  My brain hurts whenever I delve into them.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Terry, N4TLF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* samudra.haque at gmail.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2020 8:42 PM
>>
>> *To:* 'Martin'
>>
>> *Cc:* 'Tacos'
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: anyone with a entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Martin, thanks for the tip. I went looking for the board you
>> recommended from Lattice (it’s offered at a good price) but if I am not
>> mistaken, it doesn’t have any peripherals such as switches  for onboard
>> experiments? The photos show it comes with LEDs, but no switches.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then I went looking for the icestorm documentation and it seems they ship
>> from UK (the blackice boards) so despite those development boards being
>> chock full of accessories for experimentation, the shipping delay and cost
>> sort of makes it expensive.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, randomly I searched and came across (comments requested) *for about
>> $43.85 total with shipping*:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEP-MAX10-Intel-Altera-FPGA-development-board/143318504573?hash=item215e72d47d%3Ag%3AlcQAAOSwARpdGDCw&LH_BO=1
>>
>>
>>
>> and according to the website
>> http://www.stepfpga.org/step-max10-development-board/  it is fully
>> supported by:
>>
>>
>>
>> Altera MAX10 FPGA: 10M02/10M08
>>
>> On board USB Blaster programming circuit
>>
>> 2-character 7-segment display
>>
>> Two RGB LEDs
>>
>> Four switches
>>
>> Four push buttons
>>
>> Eight user LEDs
>>
>> Power from MicroUSB connector
>>
>> 40 pins DIP connector with 36 User I/Os
>>
>>
>>
>> ·        STEP-MAX10 Hardware Manual 1.0
>> <https://github.com/stepfpga/STEP-MAX10/blob/master/docs/STEP-MAX10%20Hardware%20Manual%201.0.pdf>
>>
>> ·        STEP-MAX10 Software Manual 1.0
>> <https://github.com/stepfpga/STEP-MAX10/blob/master/docs/STEP-MAX10%20Software%20Manual%201.0.pdf>
>>
>> ·        STEP-MAX10 Source Code
>> <https://pan.baidu.com/s/1guMNzIYx2Q4sUGhQ1pSUvg>
>>
>> ·        STEP-MAX10 Schematic diagram
>> <https://github.com/stepfpga/STEP-MAX10/blob/master/docs/STEP-MAX10%20Schematic.pdf>
>>
>> ·        Software&Tools <http://fpgasoftware.intel.com/?edition=pro>
>>
>> The software suite is … Altera (Microsoft) Quartus Prime Lite, which
>> includes ModelSim for soft logic analyzer waveform output … and supports
>> Verilog and VHDL. I think that could be ok for mid-level developers, right?
>>
>>
>>
>> But since the documentation says “*On board JTAG programming circuit*”,
>> is an actual JTAG gadget still necessary for this device, or is that
>> functionality already included somehow?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Martin <dcmk1mr2 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2020 7:26 PM
>> *To:* Samudra Haque <samudra.haque at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Tacos <tacos at amrad.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: anyone with a entry level FPGA development board (VHDL
>> support) they don't need?
>>
>>
>>
>> You might want to take a look at
>> https://www.amazon.com/LATTICE-SEMICONDUCTOR-ICE40HX1K-STICK-EVN-Evaluation-iCE40HX1K/dp/B00R3QU9K0
>> for a board and do a google search for Windows iceStorm support.  The are
>> more expensive FPGAs from Intel/Altera amd Xilinx but the tool chains are
>> awful.
>>
>>
>>
>> You also might want to check to see if you really want to invest in VHDL
>> or if Verilog might be better for your needs.  It doesn't hurt to know both
>> but Verilog is more like C and is less trouble to learn.
>>
>>
>>
>> Learning to simulate is a really import skill for FPGA development so you
>> can get started with that before you have hardware.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73 Martin W6MRR
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:50 PM <samudra.haque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would like to do an experiment with an FPGA development board. I’m
>> looking for something with pinouts or with a switch + LED; My experience
>> with VHDL is very limited. I will be using Windows 10 for my development
>> environment.
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone has a board they don’t need, would you be willing to sell it at
>> a Tippy’s Taco’s meetup to me? Send me the product manufacturer part number
>> and your ask to samudra.haque at gmail.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, if I had no FPGA board, is there a emulator environment that I can
>> compile the code and get a testbench / diagram of the signals? At least I
>> could begin coding / developing the framework right away.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73 de Samudra N3RDX
>>
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