Experimenter hf net organizing

[David A Aitcheson - KB3EFS]

PropNET'ers - To bring you up to speed about a AMRAD project...
web site at http://www.amrad.org/


Hal, Dick, Terry, and any other members of AMRAD,

You are _all_ cordially invited to join the PropNET-Online Yahoo group so
that you can share in our experiences.  You can join by going to:

http://www.propnet.org/ and using the form at the bottom right of the page.

Our Yahoo Group can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PropNET-Online

We would also welcome any of you as on the air stations as we have a "hole"
in the Mid-Atlantic / National Capitol region that we would like to fill.

We can all learn from each others "uhoh" and "AhHA" or "Eureka" as
long as we share them openly.  Let there be no doubt that Propnet has grown
and matured over several years, It began life as "BeacoNet" using AX25
before PSK was around.

Who is to say that "our" method is best and who is to say that "your"
method is best... with sharing of experiences a "better combined" method
could be developed depending on the application at hand and the desired
outcome that is being sought.

73
Dave Aitcheson - KB3EFS [FN24bi]
Webmaster http://www.propnet.org

hal wrote:
> Thanks for telling us about your propnet.  I see you've done a lot
> of good work establishing the net.  I think it would be beneficial for use
> to spend some time reading the documents on the propnet site.  While I 
 > think propnet is interesting and in one or two ways has similarities to
 > what we want to do, there are difference in our purpose if not methods.
 >
> I had not anticipated doing much work to gather propagation statistics 
> which rightly is a field of its own. Our goal is waveform and protocol 
 > experiments.  There are a number of protocol mechanism that we'd like to
 > explore on HF, for example, some of the advanced error correcting codes
 > now frequently found in commercial (but not amateur) systems,  a
 > non-military approach to hf frequency hopping, experiments with the
 > adaptive mechanisms associated with  ALE  and the infrequently used
 > upper protocol layers of ALE.  I think our goal and focus is different
 > enough that  were not "reinventing the wheel."   In fact, I'm sure all
 > our participants would be delighted to learn whatever we can from propnet,
 > if only to avoid repeating problems propnet has already mastered.
 >
> A last point: there is also a difference in scale.  Our effort will be 
> probably be at max 15 or so involved experimenters pretty much dedicated 
 > to trying out various ideas.
 >
> I do see something interesting here which you've implemented with 
> propnet and the rudiments we proposed to manage our experimenters network 
 > and that is  using the Internet to supply, organize and manage a
 > cooperative amateur effort. This may be a model for future cooperative
 > amateur efforts.
 >
> It would be useful to both efforts if we can keep an exchange of ideas
> flowing.
> 
> 73-
> Hal/ WB3KDU
>    
> 
> 
> 
> David A Aitcheson - KB3EFS wrote:
> 
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> de Dave / KB3EFS(/2)
>>
>> Have any of you looked at the http://www.propnet.org web site
>> and the system that this group of hams has in place for doing
>> propagation studies?  If not then I suggest you do before you
>> do the perverbial reinvention of the wheel.
>>
>> Using psk31 and windows software signal "catches" are reported
>> to a server on the internet and plotted LIVE on the FINDU website.
>>
>> Basically we have the robots set up already!
>>
>> Click this link for the last 24 hours in North America on 20/10/6/2.
>>
>> http://propnet.findu.com/catch.cgi?last=24&geo=propnet/na.geo
>>
>> and click this link to see the last hour overlaid on a nationwide
>> mosaic of weather radar.
>>
>> http://propnet.findu.com/catch.cgi?last=01&geo=http://www.qsl.net/n8qlt/nws_conus_sm.geo 
>>
>>
>> Look for an article in CQ or QST (and websites) soon!
>>
>> The PropNet group would love to have your expertise and input,
>> not to mention our desire to share our experiences with you.
>>
>> 73
>> Dave Aitcheson - KB3EFS [FN24bi]
>> Webmaster http://www.propnet.org
>>
>> hal wrote:
>>
>>> Dick Cramer and myself are beginning to organize
>>> an hf experimenter net whose purpose is to support
>>> both voice and data experiments in the hf band.
>>> We would like to work in the 17meter band, on 18.140
>>> and a second channel (not yet chosen) in the 20m band.
>>>
>>> The ideas of this net is to bring together hams interested in
>>> building and performing hf communications experiments.
>>> At some point we would like to automate this process
>>> to use unmanned automatic "robot" stations that receive
>>> their orders over hf and listen and collect data transmitted
>>> by an experimenter. But until we can design the robot
>>> participating hams can collect the data and send it back to the 
>>> experimenter
>>> for analysis.  If collection software is required the experimenter
>>> is responsible for writing these routines and distributing them
>>> to participating stations, perhaps via a designated web site.
>>>
>>> I have talked to several hams about the network and they
>>> said they are willing to participate, at first as collection stations
>>> for other experimenters and then as experimenters themselves.
>>>
>>> The main purpose of the net as a "platform" for
>>> experimenters.  And second, but equally important purpose,
>>> is to allow the participants to understand the
>>> experimenter's approach, the technology and how
>>> the experimenter will use the data collected by net members.
>>> I don't know yet how to support this part
>>> of the net but it is just as important for participants to understand 
>>> and
>>> comment upon the experimenter's approach as is the experiment itself.
>>>
>>> This week we are starting to assemble equipment and antennas
>>> for the 17m and 20m channels and in a short time we will initiate
>>> trial contacts between members in NoVirginia, SC and Florida to
>>> get a better idea of the propagation.  Paul R has provided us
>>> with an VOACap propagation model to use for this purpose.
>>>
>>> Perhaps one of the first experiments will be to test out an
>>> idea of using turbo code FEC on hf to see how noisy the
>>> path can get and still allow relatively error free communications
>>> to get through.
>>>
>>> Net participants who have expressed  interest include
>>> Dick Cramer  rwcfl at NOSPAMearthlink.net    florida
>>> Hal Feinstein  hfeinstein at NOSPAMcox.net     No Virginia
>>> Terry Fox      wb4jfi at NOSPAMamrad.org     Columbia S.C
>>>
>>> Several others have spoken to me about participating.
>>> If your interested please drop a line to Dick, Terry
>>> or myself for the latest info.
>>> (delete the NOSPAM to reply to the address)
>>> -hal/wb3kdu