ATSC hand held TV

[Chip Fetrow]

Terry:

The IBAC change over (like it will ever happen) isn’t the same thing as ATSC.

ATSC was forced on broadcasters, and had a deadline, well, not exactly one.  In the end, everyone HAD to switch, and soon even the translators and LPTVs will have to as well.

For IBAC, there is no such deadline, nor will there ever be one.  IBAC is a PRODUCT.  It is something that iniquity is SELLING to radio broadcasters, and for a LOT of money, which just keeps going up as the broadcasters add sub channels or even gain more ad revenue.  On those sub channels, the broadcasters must pay a percentage of revenue to iBiquity.  It is totally a different animal.  No one is paying the Grand Alliance a percentage of their gross.

I have no problem with digital in either the MW band or the current VHF mid-band used for FM.  Let it be DRM.  Done and done.  No excessive fees and no interference to other broadcasters.

Also, let me repeat it is not IBOC, it is IBAC.  The data is in adjacent channels, not on channel, thus the problem of interference.  Yes iBiquity had the dream of doing it on channel but physics would not bend for them.

There are other reasons that radio is harder than TV.  In TV, MANY people were willing to buy new receivers.  In radio, there are so many more receivers.  In TV, converters were (and are) available, but not so in radio.  Also, show me how a portable radio is going to have a converter lashed up to it.  Hams, MAYBE, the public, no way.  Plus, there are several orders of magnitude more AM/FM radios than TVs in the marketplace.

The FCC FORCED the NTSC to ATSC transition, not so for iBiquity.  Ask my 90 year old Father In Law or my nearly 90 year old parents why they should buy new radios for IBAC that don’t even work right.  Hell, ask me!

I agree with you about adjacent channel issues on IBAC, but I have found no, heard of no, nor read of no co-channel issues with IBAC.  If there are co-channel issues they are worse on analog.


My analog TV was fine, though noisy on 8 and 12.  Who would think I would get noise on signals from well over 100 miles away.  I am actually West, not North of DC.  I am five miles North of Dulles, near the Potomac River, in Virginia.  I used to have many NTSC signals that worked fine.  Sometimes Channel 2 to of Baltimore had obvious co-channel issues.  I am not sure the source.  Most of the time it was the same network,  Local commercials were interesting.

I think it very unfair of you to paint me with the broad brush of stating every digital standard is wrong.  I disagree.  While I am unhappy that ATSC does’t work for me, “HD” Radio works for no one but equipment manufacturers.  It also causes interference, and that is dreadful on AM.  On the other hand, DRM seems to be working really great on short-wave.  I strongly support it,

—chip


On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:59 AM, <wb4jfi at knology.net> <wb4jfi at knology.net> wrote:

> No dogs, my only point regarding IBOC was that it's changeover a total mess, and has not successfully transitioned to digital, unlike TV broadcast.  8VSB has some issues, but the transition was completed.  Not so with digital radio.  I have heard about the adjacent channel problems with IBOC, along with some co-channel interference issues.  Those problems would not be nearly as important if the ANALOG radio transmissions had ceased.  You would NOT still have mostly analog radios around your house to receive interference from IBOC, if those analog stations had ceased to exist.  The real issue is that the HD Radio transition is stuck, and not moving forward to a close.  And, I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing.  After all, it can be hard to pick up an HD Radio signal with a diode detector!
> 
> The DTV transition timeline was forced upon us, particularly so the FCC could recover spectrum.  With RADIO being In-Band, On-Channel, there was never any push to recover spectrum, therefore never any push to have an end to the transition.  The FCC said "Let the Market Decide", and it hasn't... or maybe it has.  As you pointed out, these days HD Radios can be difficult to find.  That may be the answer in itself!
> 
> I'm not sure why you can't pick up any DTV signals, if you could pick up analog TV signals.  Was the analog picture good quality?  If so, you should be able to get at least some DTV signals.  What type of DTV receiver do you have?  Antenna & transmission line system?  The same antenna should work for analog or digital signals.  I'm guessing that you are north of DC, so one antenna that gets DC, Baltimore, and the other markets you mentioned must not be all that directional/good.  Have you tried to move or rotate the antenna at all?  Here in Charleston, SC, I am MANY miles from the DTV transmitters (they are north of city by quite a bit, and I am south-west of downtown).  They are UHF, and I can receive them on a telescoping whip with a portable DTV receiver that cost $80 at CVS.  I have use that system several times during potential weather emergencies.  They do call this the "Low Country" for a reason.
> 
> It seems like your dog in the hunt is that whomever chose a digital transmission system (either for radio or TV), chose the wrong one. And they are idiots.  Based on my experience with the DTV transition, I totally disagree regarding it's changeover.  HD Radio is a totally different animal, with different market pressure points (or lack thereof).
> 
> Tacos may not be the best place for this discussion, I don't know.  Saying people are idiots or ideas are stupid does not enlighten the listening crowd about the technical success or failures of this system or that.  As with any technical decision, there will be winners and there will be losers.  I guess (based on your stated experiences) you are on the losing end of both of these.  Sorry for your loss.
> Terry, WB4JFI